Take-Two Interactive Software [TTWO] Conference call transcript for 2021 q2
2021-08-02 23:06:11
Fiscal: 2022 q1
Operator: Greetings, and welcome to the Take-Two Q1 Fiscal Year 2022 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.
Nicole Shevins: Good afternoon. Thank you for joining our conference call to discuss our results for the first quarter and fiscal year 2022 ended June 30, 2021. Today's call will be led by Strauss Zelnick, Take-Two's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Karl Slatoff, our President; and Lainie Goldstein, our Chief Financial Officer. We will be available to answer your questions during the Q&A session following our prepared remarks. Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that statements made during this call that are not historical facts are considered forward-looking statements under federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs of our management as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to us. We have no obligation to update these forward-looking statements. Actual operating results may vary significantly from these forward-looking statements based on a variety of factors. These important factors are described in our filings with the SEC, including the company's most recent annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly report on Form 10-Q, including the risks summarized in the section entitled Risk Factors. I'd also like to note that unless otherwise stated, all numbers we will be discussing today are GAAP and all comparisons are year-over-year. Additional details regarding our actual results and outlook are contained in our press release, including the items that our management uses internally to adjust our GAAP financial results in order to evaluate our operating performance. Our press release also contains a reconciliation of any non-GAAP financial measure to the most comparable GAAP measure. In addition, we have posted to our website a slide deck that visually presents our results and financial outlook. Our press release and filings with the SEC may be obtained from our website at take2games.com. And now I'll turn the call over to Strauss.
Strauss Zelnick: Thanks Nicole. Good afternoon and thank you for joining us today. I’m pleased to report this fiscal year 2022 is off to a great start, highlighted by first quarter net bookings of $711 million which exceeded our expectations. As the world is moved toward a safer new normal, we experienced strong engagement trends across most of our core franchises. During the period, we took multiple steps to enhance our organization over the long-term. We invested further in talent and core infrastructure which were important areas to support our expansive multi-year pipeline. Mobile remains a key growth opportunity and we believe their acquisition of Nordeus will enhance meaningfully our talents and expertise in this area.
Karl Slatoff: Thanks, Strauss. I'd like to thank our teams for a strong start to the year and their continued dedication to our business. We continue to believe that fiscal year 2022 will be a year of investments, as marked by our recent acquisitions of Nordeus and Dynamics. We're thrilled to have both teams join our family and we will continue to evaluate organic and inorganic opportunities to enhance our organization. I will now discuss our recent releases. Rockstar Games continue to provide an array of free content for their vast and growing online communities. In June, Rockstar released seven new arenas for the fan favorite deadline mode for Grand Theft Auto Online. This was followed by the Los Santos Tuners update, the games major summer launch in July, which delivered an action-packed street racing themed update into Grand Theft Auto Online. The update introduced elements of the Tuner car culture to the game world, including the LS Car Meet, a new heavily requested shared social space for players to get together to modify their personal vehicles, watch others modify their tuner vehicles in real-time, race and test various vehicles on an underground test track and much more.
Lainie Goldstein: Thanks, Karl, and good afternoon everyone. Today I'll discuss our first quarter results and then reveal our financial outlook for the second quarter and fiscal year 2022. Please note that additional details regarding our actual results and outlook are contained in our press release. As Strauss mentioned, fiscal 2022 is off to a strong start with our first quarter operating results exceeding our expectations. Net bookings were $711 million which was above our guidance of $625 million to $675 million and marked our second highest Q1 on record. Our outperformance is primarily driven by Grand Theft Auto Online and Grand Theft Auto 5, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Red Dead Online and Borderlands 3. During the period, overall engagement exceeded our expectation, the current consumer spending declined 25% as compared to our outlook of a 30% decline and accounted for 69% of total net bookings. Our outperformance was primarily driven by Grand Theft Auto Online as well as the addition of Nordeus. Digitally delivered net bookings declined 26% as compared to our outlook of a 30% decline and accounted for 96% of the total. This result is better than our outlook, primarily due to the outperformance of recurrent consumer spending. During the quarter 73% of console game sales were delivered digitally up from 71%, last year. GAAP net revenue declined 2% to $830 million, while cost of goods sold decreased 31% to $330 million. Operating expenses increased by 15% to $330 million, primarily driven by higher personnel and stock compensation expenses, as well as the addition of Play Dots and Nordeus. And GAAP net income was $152 million, or $1.30 per share, as compared to $89 million or $0.77 per share in the first quarter last year. We ended the quarter with over $2.5 billion of cash and short-term investments. Turning to our guidance, I will begin with our full fiscal year expectation. As Strauss mentioned, we are reiterating our net bookings outlook range of $3.2 billion to $3.3 billion. Our first quarter results outperformed our expectations and our acquisition of Nordeus will benefit the year. This is being offset by some changes to our release schedule, including moving two of our immersive court titles to later in fiscal 2022 than our prior guidance had contemplated. We continue to be very excited about our pipeline and the next phase of growth that presents for our company. The largest contributor to net bookings are expected to be NBA 2K, Grand Theft Auto Online and Grand Theft Auto 5, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Red Dead Online, as well as some of our new releases that are yet to be announced. We expect the net bookings breakdown from our labels to be roughly 55% 2K, 35%, Rockstar Games and 10% Private Division and T2 mobile games. We forecast the geographic net bookings to be about 60% United States and 40% International. As a result of our outperformance in Q1 as well as the addition of Nordeus, we now expect recurrent consumer spending to decline by 9% compared to a prior outlet of a 15% decline for this fiscal 2021. As a percentage of net bookings, the current consumer spending is expected to be relatively flat versus last year and represent 65% of total net bookings. We now project digitally delivered net bookings to decrease by approximately 6% as compared to our prior outlook of an 8% decline. As a percentage of our business digital is projected to represent 90% slightly above 89% last year. Our forecast assumes that 74% of console games out will be delivered digitally out from 64%, last year. We expect to generate more than $400 million in non-GAAP adjusted unrestricted operating cash flow, and we plan to deploy approximately $170 million for capital expenditure. The increase of our prior guidance relates to the acquisition of two office buildings in the U.K. to support our business in the region. We continue to expect GAAP net revenue to range from $3.14 billion to $3.24 billion, while we now expect cost of goods sold arrange from $1.4 billion to $1.44 billion. Total operating expenses are expected to range from $1.48 billion to $1.5 billion, representing at the midpoint a 23% increase over the prior year. This increase reflects significant investments in marketing, personnel, stock compensation and IT expenses to bring our expansive multi-year pipelines to market as well as incremental expenses to the addition of Nordeus and a full year playback. And we expect GAAP net income to range from $229 million to $259 million, or $1.95 to $2.20 per share. For management reporting purposes, we expect our tax rate to be 16% throughout the fiscal 2022. Now moving to our guidance for the fiscal second quarter. We project net bookings to range from $815 million to $865 million compared to $958 million in the second quarter last year. Our guidance reflects that continued challenging comparisons from last year due to COVID-19. The largest contributors to net bookings are expected to be NBA 2K, Grand Theft Auto Online and Grand Theft Auto 5, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Red Dead Online, Dragon City, Top Eleven and Two Dots. We project our current consumer spending to decline by approximately 11% and digitally delivered net bookings to decline by approximately 5%. Our forecast assumes that 54% of console game sales will be delivered digitally up from 57% last year. We expect GAAP net revenue to range from $740 million to $790 million and cost of goods sold to range from $323 million to $349 million. Operating expenses are expected to range from $368 million to $378 million, at the midpoint this represents a 27% increase over last year, driven primarily by higher marketing, personnel, IT and research and development costs, as well as the inclusion of Playdots and Nordeus. And GAAP net income is expected to range from $41 million to $53 million, or $0.35 to $0.45 per share. In closing, our first quarter results demonstrates the health of our business and the incredible execution from our talented colleagues across the world. As we capitalized on our industry strong talent, combined with our unique business drivers, we believe that our company will deliver significant long-term growth and margin expansion for our shareholders. Thank you. I'll now turn the call back to Strauss.
Strauss Zelnick: Thanks, Lainie and Karl. On behalf of our entire management team, I'd like to thank our colleagues for delivering a strong start to the year and to our shareholders, I'd like to express our appreciation for your continued support. We'll now be happy to take your questions. Operator?
Operator: Thank you. At this time, we'll be conducting a question-and-answer session. Your first question comes from the line of Mario Lu with Barclays.
Mario Lu: I have two. So being the first of the major game publishers to report earnings this quarter. Wanted to hear your thoughts regarding the recent developments within the industry on gender inequality. If you could share Take-Two stance on this issue. And if there's anything you can share in terms of impact or change, does expect it to be within the company would be greatly appreciated.
Strauss Zelnick: Thanks for the question. Look, our most important asset here is our people because they create everything that we're able to bring to consumers. We're an asset light business. We are a business of intellectual property. And our strategy, our stated strategy has always been to be the most creative, the most innovative and the most efficient company in the business. Diversity is key to our success. We need to have a diverse perspective and diverse voices in order to create that quality. So it starts at the top. Our board of directors is diverse with respect to gender, race and skill set. Our management team is exceedingly diverse from a gender perspective. And our voices as a result are diverse. But we're not stopping there. We're also reaching into the community to create a broader, more diverse pool from which we can recruit and our competitors can recruit going forward. So we work together on company sponsored service projects and the communities in which we operate. We encourage individual volunteerism and giving through our philanthropic and matching donation programs. We support organizations that are focused on enhancing diversity. We increase the candidate pool through scholarships to design students, contributions to organizations providing STEM opportunities to children in underserved communities and delivering interview training and career counseling to young adults. And this crosses genders, but in many instances, we're also focused on young females as well. So we're trying to do the right thing from the top of the company, at the board level, to the management team, to even creating a pool from which we can recruit a long time into the future. And even so I'm sure there's much more that we can do.
Mario Lu: Great. Thanks, Strauss. Glad to hear it. And just one question for Lainie, on the COVID impact and on recurrent consumer spending in the quarter. Currently consumer spending decline is 25% versus your guidance to 30, which is a smaller beat than usual. So given that, fiscal 1Q was the first full quarter of comping, sheltering in place last year, can you give us a little bit more color in terms of how user engagement trended throughout the quarter? Things get better or worse, at any additional color be helpful.
Lainie Goldstein: Sure, Mario. It is definitely in line with what our expectations were, it’s a little bit better. We saw better performance in GTA Online than we expected. We also had the addition of Nordeus, which also helped our recurrent consumer spending in the quarter. So it was definitely seeing the engagement in line with what we had expected. So there really isn't any change than what we had guided to from the beginning of the year.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Mike Ng with Goldman Sachs.
Mike Ng: Great. Thanks for the question. I also just have two. First, could just talk a little bit about how the success of GTA 5 and GTA Online, the interest levels for GTA Enhanced Edition and how that could perform. And then second, just as a housekeeping item, I was just wondering if you're willing to provide the actual growth numbers for GTA Online, and Red Dead online in the quarter, and also your assumptions, at least directionally for those businesses in the September quarter guidance for RCS? Thank you.
Strauss Zelnick: Thanks, Mike. In terms of our expectations about any upcoming release, apart from what we give in guidance, I don't tend to give any more colors than that. Grand Theft Auto 5 and Grand Theft Auto Online have been out now for some eight years. And the performance has consistently been vastly better than our expectations. I have no doubt that the Enhanced Edition will delight consumers, I have no doubt that it will be absolutely extraordinary. How it will perform? Hard to say. This is now the third generation in which the title has existed. I'm an optimist. And I find that you never want to bet against Rockstar Games. So I'm looking forward to the release. And Lainie will take the second question.
Lainie Goldstein: So for GTA Online in Q2, our expectations are for to be up in the quarter due to the update that has just released. We didn't have an update last year. It says -- it's difficult comp because of COVID. But since we had this update, we expect it to be up versus last year. And for Red Dead online, since it's a difficult comp. We expected to be slightly up but due to the update, but not as up as GTA Online versus last year.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Matthew Thornton with Truist Securities.
Matthew Thornton: Maybe two quick ones. First is on the delays. You call that the two immersive core titles, it sounded like maybe there might be some other stuff as well. I'm just curious if there's a slippage without getting into specifics around some of the other new mobile titles or extensions kind of planned for the year in any color there. And then just secondly, I think you just talked a little bit about kind of engagement trends given the pandemic normalization. It sounds like things are trending kind of as you thought three months ago, I don't want to put words in your mouth. I think that that's the interpretation there. The other change in the quarter was obviously around the Apple, ATT changes, IDFA changes and the impact on the mobile side of the business. I'm just curious on the mobile side of business, if you saw any impact or guess how that tracked relative to your expectation when we all sat here three months ago? Thanks. Any color there would be great. Thanks, guys.
Strauss Zelnick: Thanks, Matthew. We don't have any other expectations or delays. So we've got -- we've mentioned what we have, as we always do. In terms of how things are trending post-pandemic, if you call this post pandemic and I hope we can remains to be seen. The trend is almost exactly what we anticipated. And what we've talked about now for over a year, which is we expected post-pandemic demand to be higher than pre-pandemic demand and lower than the demand during the pandemic which stands to reason because people have in many ways returned to normal in most of the world that remains to be seen as to overcome in the future. I'm hopeful that that will continue. But clearly there's been this systemic shift in favor of interactive entertainment, it's now the number one entertainment vertical, it's something like $180 billion market. It's a diverse market. In terms of gender, it's diverse in terms of age. So we couldn't be more optimistic about the market than we are. And in terms of IDFA, it's still early days, it remains to be seen, we have not seen any negative impact on our business. And I think that's really because we're big enough that we have lots of access to data, we have a consolidated consumer database across all of our labels, which is very robust. And if you have enough of your own data and you've solid data analytics teams, which we have both at the corporate level and at the label level, then a great deal of the information can be found in other ways. And you can do appropriate marketing that protects consumers privacy, without the resources that we had before from Apple. So we're in a good place so far with regard to that change. But it is still early.
Operator: Your next question comes from line of Andrew Uerkwitz with Jefferies.
Andrew Uerkwitz: Hey, thank you. I just have two quick ones. First one, I think for Lainie. Could you on the increase marketing spend is the delay affect the way you're going to go-to-market with these titles. And then, secondly, has the return on marketing spend changed over the last several years, has it gotten better gotten worse, any color there to kind of on how marketing is affected, game sales would be useful? Thank you.
Lainie Goldstein: For the increase on the marketing hasn't really changed, there's a little bit of timing change from Q1 into the rest of the year. And there's a little bit of shift out of the year into next year. But that's being offset by some additional costs due to the acquisition of Nordeus into the year. So there is a little bit of an increase of the overall operating expense in the year versus previous guidance. So it's a reduction of a little bit of marketing offset by the Nordeus expense. And in terms of the return on marketing spend, I wouldn't say there's better or worse, I would say that we're a little bit more targeted on how we're spending our marketing. So I'd say we're getting a better return because we're able to really see how we're spending the marketing in a better way with better analytics over the last few years. But the spend, continues to be strong spend in order to do the best marketing for our titles, especially also with the mobile titles as well.
Andrew Uerkwitz: Got it. Thank you. And then, Strauss, I just wanted to go back to the first question a bit. I mean, had some of the issues that popped up and other competitors, made you guys kind of rethink how you -- some of your policies, procedures, and then kind of along those lines, I believe employee turnover is already -- you guys have a history of low turnover, because people enjoy working in at Take-Two, is that still the case? Is turnover still pretty low?
Strauss Zelnick: Thanks for the question. Look, let's just pass at the inclusion, diversity, and common decency is of paramount importance to everyone here. And specifically, highly important to me and has been for the 14 years that we've been around. This is nothing new for us. The culture of the company is well known and well known internally and reasonably well known externally. All that said, we can always do better. And I think we're known to be people who always want to be doing better and never want to rest on our laurels. We don't think that, fostering an appropriate environment is a single set of actions or reflects, one day in a news cycle. We think it's a constant process of introspection and improvement. There are always ways that we in the industry can do better. We'll listen to our colleagues, and we'll work on this area over time. But I want to be very specific because you asked the question about what we do around here and what we've always done. The first is, and I'll say it is black and white away as I can. We will not tolerate harassment or discrimination or bad behavior of any kind we never have. We set those expectations when people come on board here through our code of conduct and our anti-harassment and anti-discrimination policies. All of which our colleagues are required to review and sign when they're hired. All of our colleagues take anti-harassment training at hire and by annually after that. And we make it clear through the training and through our policy that if anyone does experience any inappropriate contact, there are multiple avenues to report that. And they'll never be retaliated against for doing so. those options include the management chain, anyone in HR, an anonymous complaint by phone or online through our third-party hotline and website reporting tool. Take-Two has a director of diversity and inclusion and that includes developing, executing and leading the global DE&I strategy. And that supports our business objectives. We also have multiple employee resource groups inside the company. And we have more growing all the time, which gives us all a thrill. So that's what we're up to very specifically, again, is there more that we could do? I'm certain there is. Do we feel like we're in a pretty good place, we're grateful that we do feel that way right now. In terms of retention, our turnover rate is roughly half of the industries. That's been true for about the past 18 months, there have been times when it's been about 70% of industry levels. It's been trending down at a time when I think in general turnover is trending up. So we feel good about that. And that's another measure of how we're doing so we focus on it.
Operator: Your next question comes from Martin Yang with Oppenheimer & Company.
Martin Yang: My first one is about how you account for the shifts in business models and player taste for games that have a much longer development cycle than a typical annual releases. And how much input does your central organization have in those directional changes on the market?
Strauss Zelnick: I'm not sure I entirely follow your question. The development cycles for our core immersive releases are still significant. It takes some time to make, what we hope will be the best titles in the business. And development cycles are not getting shorter for core immersive releases. And I wouldn't necessarily expect them to. I think what's changed in between big releases, we continue to engage consumers with add on content and with opportunities to engage in online versions of the game in certain instances, multiplayer opportunities as well. So that's what created a recurrent consumer spending. But much more importantly, recurrent consumer spending reflects consumer activity and engagement. But that doesn't really change development cycles. So did I miss your question in some way?
Martin Yang: Oh, no, I think you answered it. I have a follow up of for Lainie, in terms of the marketing plan for the year, particularly around expanded enhanced versions for GTA. Do you treat that game release as a brand new game around the marketing and campaigns around it? Or do you -- how do you see this enhanced versions and marketing leading to the release?
Lainie Goldstein: Wouldn't be marketed as a brand new game, there's certainly is marketing around the game, but it wouldn't be as if it's a brand new release of a GTA property.
Operator: Your next question comes from line of Brian Nowak with Morgan Stanley.
Matt Cost: Hi, guys, it's Matt on for Brian, thanks for taking the questions. I have few. So Strauss, you made a comment about seeing signs of stabilization in media consumption patterns. Obviously, understood your comments about how you expected to come to a lower rate post-pandemic than you saw during the pandemic. But I guess one of the things that you're seeing right now that are giving you confidence that you're seeing stabilization, as it was just sort of being midway through sort of the normalization process with a floor at some lower level. And then the second question is, just on the reorganization of the mobile studios, are there any new capabilities or new goals for that organization now that you're centralizing all the studios under one umbrella? Is there anything that new that's possible on the mobile side of business because of that? Thanks.
Karl Slatoff: Hi, Matt. So in terms of the stabilization of media consumption patterns, really, what we're seeing is, is we can just see the numbers. Obviously, we don't have the same kind of wind in our backs as we did during the pandemic itself. But now that the pandemic is hopefully over, certainly people are getting back to normal. We're experiencing what we expected. But we're also seeing instances like, for example, when the news came out for GTA Online, we're seeing record engagement. So that in itself shows you that, that the sort of the moderation that we've seen, is really coming to an end because people are engaging when the content is released and they're engaging in a very significant way. So that gives us a lot of confidence that we're that we that we maybe were past the -- I guess you'd call them the headwinds of losing the tailwind of the pandemic. And we moved on to where the titles are behaving as we would expect in a more normalized environment. And so we can see it in the numbers themselves. In terms of centralizing the studios and mobile under one umbrella. We do expect that there will be synergies across the organizations, each of these studios has got something to bring in terms of expertise, whether it's data analytics, whether it's different ways to create content, there are a lot of things that we they can learn from each other and bringing them together under one management umbrella really gives us the ability not to mention also consumer data really gives us the ability to pursue best practices across the entire organization. So yes, we do expect there to be synergies based on this reorganization.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Gerrick Johnson with BMO Capital Markets.
Gerrick Johnson: Strauss, I was just wondering why these titles were delayed.
Strauss Zelnick: We need more time to polish them and make sure that the best title they possibly can be.
Gerrick Johnson: Okay, so no COVID-related delay then.
Strauss Zelnick: No, our team has been incredibly productive throughout the pandemic. And even though we have a lot of work going on at home, productivity is high.
Gerrick Johnson: Okay, great. And is Nordeus accretive?
Lainie Goldstein: Yes, Nordeus is an accretive acquisition for us.
Operator: Your next question comes from line of Clay Griffin with MoffettNathanson.
Clay Griffin: Strauss, I noticed Sony's Jim Ryan, specifically calling out Chinese demand for position five. You've been bullish on long-term opportunity in China in the sense that it opens up to Western content. The same time there's obviously been a lot of concern on regulatory shift in China's space. I'd love to just get your current thoughts on the Chinese market now you think Take-Two is positioned to participate in that market over time? Thanks.
Strauss Zelnick: It's a great market for us. We have the number one PC online sports title in China with 54 million registered users. NBA 2K Online continues to grow in China. We also have console titles for China and we have titles that are being approved. We have great relationships in China with Tencent's and others. And so we think there's plenty of upside going forward.
Operator: Your next question comes from line of Brian Fitzgerald with Wells Fargo.
Brian Fitzgerald: From Social Point to Playdots to Nordeus, you guys have always been really highly disciplined in terms of M&A activity. We wanted to ask what you're seeing in terms of valuations on the mobile side of things or are our platform changes like Apple and AT&T, is that making it increasingly harder, Strauss to your point for small publishers and studios to compete? Is that making it more frothy in terms of the -- just the general environment for acquisitions.
Strauss Zelnick: We haven't seen any change in the market yet. And valuations remain frothy, I think because of the growth of the sector and enthusiasm around the sector. However, our discipline has really paid off in the past 14 years knock wood, we haven't made a failed acquisition. Our acquisitions are accretive, usually right away. Sometimes it could take a little bit of time. But we're happy that we've done every deal that we've done. We did miss out on a few that we wish we had done, but frankly, not all that many. I think you raised a good point which is over time will it be harder for smaller companies to compete in the space And I think that'll be true, the answer will be yes, with regard to both mobile and console, the resources required are significant. The risk profile is significant. And, the history of the entertainment business is that over time, those that are very creative become very successful. Those that are very successful become bigger, those that are bigger have the opportunity to acquire smaller enterprises. And as long as the focus remains on creativity, innovation and efficiency, and as long as the culture that has made the company successful in the first place is maintained. There's an opportunity for continued success, even with scale. And that's certainly how we see ourselves and how we envision our future.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Drew Crum with Stifel
Drew Crum: So just going back to GTA Online, can you talk about your expectations for the fiscal year. Lainie, I know you said GTA is expecting growth in fiscal 2Q, if the standalone version coming in November. So with that in place, can GTA Online grow this year? And then, separately, I know you guys don't like the guide on specific titles, but on Hades, it looks like it had a limited release previously, but managed to shift a million plus copies, very high meta score, can you talk about maybe at a high level what your expectations are for that game and prospects for commercial success? Thanks.
Lainie Goldstein: For GTA Online, our expectations for the full year is for, it to moderate. So for the full year, we expect moderation of the trends have benefited us, from the industry last year, due to COVID and the sheltering at home. So, Q1 was down versus last year, even though it beat our expectations, and Q2 is going to be up because of the update, which is doing really well. So we do expect Q3 and Q4 right now to be down. But GTA Online always surprises us. So, it's still early in the in the year. So we'll see you know what happens. But right now we do have our expectations as it being moderating for the year.
Karl Slatoff: And in terms of Hades, look, I mean, a lot of ways this is one of the ideal projects for Private Division. I mean, we founded the division based on our effort to hook up with some of the best independent developers in the world, and I would certainly categorize Supergiant, as one of those. Hades is obviously has had significant critical and commercial success to date with a digital release. And we're really excited to be part of it on the physical side. And we think there's a significant market for that title that is just started. They have sold a good number of copies, but there's a lot of upside for us. So we're thrilled to be in business with Supergiant. But we think there's a great amount of upside scores and we're looking forward to the release.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Benjamin Soff with Deutsche Bank.
Benjamin Soff: Just one if I could. I was just wondering how you guys think about the subscription model in gaming? And where and if you see an opportunity there for you guys. Thanks.
Strauss Zelnick: Yes. Our views remain unchanged. We think that a subscription model can make sense for deep catalog titles. But it doesn't really make sense for frontline titles. And for any business model it makes sense in the entertainment business, it has to work for the creators of the entertainment as well as the consumers of the entertainment. And I think catalog can make sense for the publishers, can make sense for consumers who are avid who really want access to a lot of product. But if you're getting into frontline product, then the economics are much more difficult to make sense of. And remember, consumers who are involved with interactive entertainment have different consumption patterns than those of our linear entertainment. Linear entertainment consumers consume something like 150 hours of programming a month, that's probably well over 100 different titles. In the case of interactive entertainment consumers are consuming something like 45 hours a month, and that may be 1, 2, 3, 4 titles, but it's certainly not 100 titles. So from a consumer point of view, it's not clear that a subscription model really makes sense for the bulk of consumers. That remains to be seen. We're open minded, we have made catalog titles available for subscription services. Very occasionally, we've made frontline titles available as well. But we do see this more as a catalog offering than a frontline offering.
Operator: The next question comes from line of Eric Handler with MKM Partners.
Eric Handler: Two questions. First, with regards to the untethering of Red Dead Redemption Online. Now you've had this for a little while. And just curious, what are you finding what the game in terms of widening the funnel? Is it bringing new people in that's helping to sell more units of Red Dead Redemption 2? Anything -- any color, you can give us would be great?
Strauss Zelnick: It's been good news. We've added players, it's been good for the main game. It's been good for Red Dead Online. I think the timing was excellent. Again, I think you can do almost anything from a marketing point of view if you're mindful of creating appropriate marketing windows.
Eric Handler: Great. And then, just as a follow up. I'm curious with COVID ebbs and flows, are your developers still completely working at home? Have you brought them back in-house at all? Or where do you stand there?
Strauss Zelnick: It's a mix. People are back at work in China, for example, and other parts of the globe. We have some people back at work at offices in the U.S. as well. We are very mindful of what's going on, our colleagues safety and health comes first. And thankfully, everyone's highly productive wherever they are.
Operator: Your next question comes from line of Mike Hickey with The Benchmark Company.
Mike Hickey: Congrats on the quarter guys. Thanks for taking my questions. Two for me. First one, it looks like subsequent quarter end, you started using some of the takedown request to remove old Grand Theft Auto mod. So sort of curious the catalyst for doing that. And sort of the feedback from the player community. And the second question is on the collegiate opportunity, it seems like you sort of have a new frontier here for college sports, and athletes, and sort of, I guess, your thoughts there and even consideration in your pipeline. Thanks, guys.
Strauss Zelnick: In terms of takedowns, we were pretty flexible, frankly, that said, if the economy is threatened, or if there's bad behavior and we know how to define that, then we would issue a takedown notice. I'm sorry, what was your second question Mike?
Mike Hickey: Second question was just on the collegiate opportunities, Strauss for sports and athletes or games?
Strauss Zelnick: And the opportunity with regard to what just so I understand your question.
Mike Hickey: NBA, obviously, college basketball would be pretty sweet, I think to just sort of, I guess, expansion opportunities for your game portfolio or working with athletes, maybe for marketing, or games I'm not sure.
Strauss Zelnick: I'm not sure how to answer it. And so I'm going to be judicious and probably not going to answer it. I will note that we were in business many years ago with the NCAA and we no longer are and we're always looking for opportunities to grow our business and our sports business.
Operator: Your next question is a follow up from Matthew Thornton with Truist Securities. Your next follow up comes from Gerrick Johnson with BMO Capital Markets.
Gerrick Johnson: You were in a special time here with next gen consoles rolling out and you have GTA and NBA both have the titles coming out that will take advantage of those consoles. Are you finding more deferral of those titles in general waiting for those next versions and the rollout of those consoles?
Strauss Zelnick: It's awfully hard to measure something like that. But demand for NBA 2k has been very strong this year. We've had a great year. We've sold in over 11 million units. And certainly ongoing demand for Grand Theft Auto 5 has been huge. We sold in over 150 million units. So I'm not sure we've seen -- I'm not sure we could measure it in any case, I don't know. We'd have to do valor research and it still wouldn't tell us anything that we could do differently. But I remain of the view that the Enhanced Edition of Grand Theft Auto 5 will be highly appealing to consumers with next gen platforms, or now current gen platforms. But that remains to be seen.
Operator: Your next question is a follow up from Matthew Thornton with Truist Securities.
Matthew Thornton: Just two quick follow ups, I guess, thing on new consoles for a second. I'm just curious how you're thinking about supply as we head into the holiday season. And obviously, we've got the next gen Grand Theft Auto release and just kind of curious of the latest thoughts around console supply and demand. And then, just secondly, you guys have talked a lot about the pipeline numbers of releases for fiscal '23 and fiscal '24. You've talked about expecting sequential growth in fiscal '23. And you've talked about getting to new record operating results in the out years as well. I'm just curious if that last comment pertains to that window that fiscal '23 to fiscal '24 window or if I'm reading too much into that. Thanks again, guys.
Strauss Zelnick: We know the demand for console's remains high, that's not in doubt. We're hopeful that supply will be enhanced by year end and that will be in a good place. But most importantly, the demand is there. And in terms of the pipeline, yes, we said we expected sequential growth in fiscal ’23 and we expect to set new operating records in the coming years. And we still have both of those expectations.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session. And I would like to turn the call back to Strauss Zelnick for closing remarks.
Strauss Zelnick: Thank you so much for joining us today. I want to as always emphatically thank all of our colleagues all around the world who delivered these great results. And it has been a challenging time to deliver the results. Our team shows up and does their best work every day and work continues to pay off. We're so grateful. We're also grateful to our shareholders who have been so supportive over these years and I want to wish you all a happy, healthy and safe remainder of the summer. Thanks for joining us.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you all for your participation.
